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Talk:Flemeth
"Kate Mulgrew has said of Flemeth that, "she has produced many daughters. And she can become her daughters. So she uses her daughters. Her daughters are really there to serve her more diabolical needs" - Is this text should be in "Involvement" section? It is more likely this text should available in "Trivia" section. Because inside "Involvement" we give information to the characters involvement to the story of this game. --Snfonseka The content of the "Involvement" has moved into the "Trivia" --Snfonseka Death animation Not tested on Flemeth yet, but When I got the death animation on the High Dragon (at the top of the Cult of the Dragon area) the animation sounds like it was the same as the 2H sword animation. Very nice though. I can confirm for you that it is exactly the same. Just got the death animation for Flemeth, but it will only occur if Flemeth and the High Dragon are killed by melee attacks. Hope this helps. --MiyuEmi 12:31, November 19, 2009 (UTC) I must admit, it's a pretty epic way to kill of Flemeth I remember getting that death animation and just being in awe of the whole battle! - Drakeling Finding Flemeth This is regarding the note about not being able to find Flemeth after the Landsmeet. I just got done finding the Urn of Ashes, gave them to the Arl and am not able to find Flemeth at her hut. These are events prior the Landsmeet (I'm fairly sure at least) because the Arl just mentioned the Landsmeet after I cured him of his sickness. So the Landsmeet hasn't happened yet. Also, I went to Flemeth's hut a while before I got the quest to kill Flemeth and hadn't seen her there either. I believe the last time I checked her Hut was just after the battle at Redcliffe village (before entering the castle). Can anyone else confirm this? Can Flemeth be found somewhere other than her hut now? Finding Flemeth and Strategy Be aware, if you take Morrigan with you, you will not find Flemeth in their hut. The best strategy is probably to bring your arcane warrior tank along and he doesn't needs a high constitution at all. If you don't play a mage there is the problem that only Wynne can be this tank, but with armor above 60 and all resistances at 75% it should also work without a healer. It was almost a piece of cake for me on the hard difficulty level with Wynne doing the healing. (Got the death animation as well with my pretty elven mage maiden tank.) Flemeth an Old God? She supposedly is an abomination yet Morrigan seems to deny this, and the fact that she teaches Morrigan the ritual to trap the essence of the old god (optional ending) makes me wonder about this. My thoughts where that when you supposedly kill Flemeth she is said to not be dead and will eventually find another host to live within (much like what happens to an archdemon unless killed by a grey warden)So would taking the essence of the old god into the child make Morrigan like Flemeth? or would it create a new child to match Flemeth. Also when you fight Flemeth she shapeshifts into a high dragon that could easily be an old god...Just food for thought Also, I wanted to add something else, if you talk to Liliana, she talks about the story of Flemeth and how she was said to have been known for having an unearthly type of BEAUTY. If you look in a pile of books during the Urn Ashes mission you will find a codex about Old Gods and it says that 4 of the 7 Old Gods died after being killed when reincarnated as a Arch-Demon. ONE of the Old Gods that DID NOT come back as an Arch-Demon is Urthemiel (The Old God of BEAUTY!). So, is Flemeth the Old God Urthemiel? * Nope. Urthemiel is the Archdemon for the Blight you stop during the events of DA:O. So if you did the Dark Ritual, Morrigan's offspring would technically be Urthemiel, and not Flemeth. Jake200493 (talk) 11:45, August 29, 2010 (UTC) **My personal pet theory has always been that Flemeth is the precursor to Morrigan's child. The spirit of an Archdemon reborn as a human. So in other words one of the four old gods "killed" (or believed to be killed) prior to the Blight in Origins. I mean she had to have gotten that ritual from SOMEWHERE. And another reborn Old God would make for a powerful ally as far as Flemeth is concerned, I think. Plus she's an apostate who hates the Chantry. Hating the chantry is pretty much the Old God's entire identity. --Aldrius (talk) 07:25, September 11, 2010 (UTC) *** Flemeth actually is an old god, notice her "horns" in the concept art, they are identical to the ones of the blood dragon of dragon age 2 (which can't be a high dragon, it is far more impressive)... and seeing how the blood dragon of dragon age 1 turned out to be Uthremiel, the old god of beauty, she probably is another old god freed from the taint. *** Although that is a well-thought out comparison, Flemeth's "new" dragon form seems to be far less spiky than Urthemiel, the Old God from DA:O. The horns also curve out, while the Archdemon's horns were straight. This may just be a stylistic sort of thing, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens in DAII. Arctistor23 (talk) 01:39, February 9, 2011 (UTC) *** Flemeth may or may not be an Old God, but the appearance of her horns in her dragon form is by no means any kind of proof. They are unique just to let you distinguish easily between a "normal" high dragon and her shapeshifted form. Or if you prefer you could say her achieving a high dragon form thanks to her superior knowledge in the shapechanger mage specialization imprinted on her transformed body part of her strong personality, leaving her dragon form unique. *** Another thing that points towards Flemeth being an Old God (possibly either Razikale or Lusacan) is the fact that the soul of an Archdemon is able to transfer to the nearest tainted creature (darkspawn or warden) on death. Afterwards, the creature's flesh eventually is twisted and warped back into the Archdemon's dragon form. Therefore, we see that the Old Gods are able to transfer their souls into new bodies and transform those bodies into dragons, which are also properties demonstrated by or attributed to Flemeth. Coincidence? Also, dragons having a human form or the ability to shapeshift is seemingly a fantasy staple (D&D, WoW, etc.) ***Who's to say Flemeth isn't an Old God? She has lived many lifetimes and is able to transfer her soul to a new body. Plus, she hints around to Hawke that she could be a dragon and not really human, "Where did you learn to turn into a dragon? Perhappes I am a dragon." ***When you think about it flemeth could be an archdeamon in DA:O her hut has no darkspawn arond it, it has no taint and it isnt cold and gloomie like return to ostargar but in witch hunt when you walk back outside flemeths hut there are darkspawn everywhere iver protecting the house or could pick up on the GW taint. if none of that is true I beleave shes andraste sister even though she was in soul at the urn of sacred ashes flemeth does have multiple lives and souls or flemeth is not flemeth she doesnt take bodies but knows alot of magic it could be that each daughtur has just used the name for centuries--Droidsurvivur (talk) 00:56, December 8, 2011 (UTC) (talk) 15:57, May 4, 2012 (UTC) If Flemeth is the old god, then she would be surrounded by Darkspwan all the time. The warden and her would be both destroyed. Easy strategy All I needed was a tank speced Shale (Stoneheart/Stone Aura) with a Large Clear Fire Crystalhttp://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3168/shalet.jpg (bought at the gem shop in Orzammar), Wynne and my 2 Rogues equipped with Short bows. Set the party on hold, adjusted Wynne's tacticshttp://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5008/wynnetactics.jpg to only heal Shale and regenerate herself. When the fight started, I moved my rogues and healer away from the dragon and sent Shale in to Stone Roar+Taunt Flemeth. After that I pulled Shale back out of her melee range, activated Stone Aura and made sure that my rogues are within the aura's effect while Wynne was healing Shale without ever getting low on mana. Picture of the fight:http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/7240/fightl.jpg If Shale takes too much damage you can also get out of Stone Aura and use a heal potion and use Stoneheart till the aura is ready again - just be aware that Flemeth likes to pull in Shale the second he gets out of his frozen state. *Edit: Just noticed that Wynne can't cast Rejuvenate on herself, so disregard that tactic setting. Pride Demon? I believe she admits to being an abomination to a sort. Giving her appearance and her backstory, I would say it would be a Pride Demon, which would explain how she keeps her normal form. It does say that it's a symbiotic relationship, so that might also be the reason why she maintains her appearance and her own personality, unlike Uldred.It's likely that because of her power she can probably enter back into The Fade after death, which could explain how she can survive being "killed," and then possess someone.Berychance 02:06, January 20, 2010 (UTC) Stolen Throne Flemeth is in Stolen Throne for a chapter, should this be added somewhere to this page? She tells Maric a prophecy, that there will be a new Blight and that Loghain will betray him. Jancola c (talk) 00:02, June 16, 2010 (UTC) Things Flemeth Says Either I am the first to notice it, or nobody has any idea to what she is referencing to. But in the 1996 movie adaptation of "The Crucible" several "witches" are seen dancing under the moonlight (most of them naked). I can't remember if this was in the play or earlier movies too (though most likely without nudity back then), but I have seen no other mention of it. In any case, FLemeth comments in the beginning about how Morrigan does like to dance under the moon (prefereable naked??? One can only hope). Does this mean that Morrigan and Flemeth are truly witches?!? Only time will tell... XD Dragon Age 2 I just read in my new issue of game informer with dragon age 2 that she appears in her dragon form during a darkspawn battle with hawke. Anyone think she is the concept art of the women with the horns and the staff and may be a possible party member? :It's pretty strongly implied in the issue that the dragon and white-haired woman in the initial pieces of concept art are Flemeth. The dragon is seen a screenshot with a caption about how Hawke encounters Flemeth in dragon-form as she attacks Darkspawn. The dragon's horn and claws are exactly the same as the white-haired woman's crown and gauntlets. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:32, July 16, 2010 (UTC) http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/07/16/exclusive-dragon-age-ii-desktop-wallpapers.aspx confirmed, you can go ahead and put it. -- (talk) 00:16, July 17, 2010 (UTC) Oh BTW, just click over the picture for the proof. -- (talk) 00:43, July 17, 2010 (UTC) :Hmm, interesting. That wallpaper is named "yyyDA2_Flemeth_1920x1280.jpg". Looks like she got a new body. Polymer (talk) 00:51, July 17, 2010 (UTC) So...Does this mean Flemeth's death isn't canon? And how far along is this Flemeth? Is this before she rescues the Warden? Or has she taken over a new body many years later? Time paradoxes abound! (talk) 20:29, July 25, 2010 (UTC) i think it occurs in between meaning its after she saves the gray warden but before you kill her.--(Jesse Brown (talk) 17:51, August 14, 2010 (UTC)) Is her "death" in Dragon Age canon? How do you think it will play out? We cannot use the word "canon" for Dragon Age: there are so many possible outcomes that it wouldn't be fair to choose just one. I know that, for instance, Alistair is the king if you star to play as an orlesian in Awakening, but that was just necessary to develop the game. Anyway, I think that if Flemeth appears in DA 2, is because she has some kind of connection with Hawke... maybe she makes a deal with a woman escaping from Lotheing with Hawke... --Akanthar (talk) 21:32, August 18, 2010 (UTC) Also, we must take into account that the Warden kills only one of Flemeth's forms. Remember her talking about "music" and "dance" and "games"? The dragon could be just one gigantic spell as far as we know. Not even Morrigan believes that Flemeth is truly dead. So, no, I'm not surprised to see her in DA:2. She looks ready to go 16 rounds against anything. And a bit hot too. Dairydian (talk) 23:41, August 27, 2010 (UTC) Could Flemeth have possessed one of the Qunari female shamans? M.xuko (talk) 07:07, August 29, 2010 (UTC) A "Qunari female shaman"? No... I don't think do. In the screenshots, it doesn't show her grey or anything, and how she possessed another body if in the events of Lothering being attacked, the Warden wouldn't have killed her? And how a female qunari is shaman? Didn't you heard Sten saying that "women are priests, artisans, farmers or shopkeepers"? And to answer another person's question... I don't think it's "cannon" her death, but remember Morrigan saying that she wasn't sure if Flemeth could really be killed so she was preparing herself if the Witch decides to hunt her down. Flemeth may be more powerful then we think or what we were expecting. I just hope DA2 will have answers. --Rocketai (talk) 16:58, August 30, 2010 (UTC) This scene takes place in Lothering, which gets invaded shortly after the Warden leaves it, so Flemeth is still alive at this point since she is only "killable" after you do at least one quest(The Circle of Magi), I fully expect the consequences of Flemeth getting "killed" by the Warden to have some influence in DA2. (talk) 02:30, September 1, 2010 (UTC)Anon About "canon" stuff, we already know that if you import a saved game, the choices you made in Origins, Awakening, and the DLC will all be included (after all, that's why they are fixing Witch Hunt to save AFTER the ending, since it matters). So, while there may be set situations and such for totally new games, I still wouldn't call that "canon" as I don't think the game itself is meant to have a true "canon" story, it's up to us how we play the game, isn't that the whole point? AbsolutGrndZer0 (talk) 11:47, September 11, 2010 (UTC) In Witch Hunt, it says Flemeth is not entirely human, and worse than an Abomination or demon? WTF? -- (talk) 19:50, September 12, 2010 (UTC)12:50, September 12, 2010 in my opinion Flemeth reminds me of the Cheshire Cat. Neither good nor evil, but always confusing and speaking in riddles. Lying Memories (talk) 06:43, September 10, 2010 (UTC) Cleanup for "Story" section The whole section is a verbatim of BioWare's wiki page on Flemeth. I'm unsure if a complete removal is best, or if it could be included but not at its current state. A link to BioWare's page in the "External links" section works best imo. I think it breaks the tone of the article. --'D.' (talk · ) 04:36, October 9, 2010 (UTC) Witch Hunt credits image The first image in the credits for Witch Hunt looks to me like Fflemeth's new form. Should that be included here somewhere? --Sarkadark (talk) 00:42, October 21, 2010 (UTC) "Rise to Power" Image I really liked this image of Flemeth, and it also makes for nice wallpaper. When I put it into the page it looked fine in the preview, however, its position is different when I view the page. In short, if someone more skilled than me can find a better fit for it, be my guest- and accept my thanks. LVTDUDE (talk) 22:54, October 27, 2010 (UTC) My theory as to who Flemeth truly is It's a strange theory, and I'll do some deep thinking to see if I can explain some things, but what if Flemeth is The Maker? I thought of this after reading how she told Maric a Blight would come after his death. Gods are supposed to be all-knowing right? So it would make some sense, though why she would need a human host is beyond me, but like I said I'm going to do some thinking about it. Lying Memories (talk) 02:04, November 3, 2010 (UTC) What happens in dragon age 2 if you killed flemeth in Origins. HMMMM...would morrigan replace her character If you had played Witch Hunt you would know that Morrigan claims that Flemeth is not really dead Arctistor23 (talk) 23:14, February 3, 2011 (UTC) :Yea she's definitely not a person to die easily. I just can't figure out though if she's on the side of the good guys, the bad guys, or her own side looking to see how the world unfolds where she knows who will change the world and shows them the direction they need to go, but leaves the actual path to them. Lying Memories (talk) 11:52, February 5, 2011 (UTC) When Morrigan gives you the quest to kill Flemeth, she says then that she will not truly die, but it will take some time for her to find another host body. Darth Mondrak (talk) 12:23, February 5, 2011 (UTC) :Well I already knew that, and the person who posted under me and forgot to sign now knows that. Flemeth is definitely one of the most hard to read characters of a story I've ever met. I like that. It makes it all the more interesting. Then again, that's Bioware for ya. Lying Memories (talk) 22:15, February 12, 2011 (UTC) She is definitely one of the most hard to read characters, as well as being one of the most intersting, if not THE MOST interesting of the Dragon Age characters. Arctistor23 (talk) 22:30, February 12, 2011 (UTC) Amulet delivery I hope delivering that amulet is optional because im starting to think it has something to do with a new possesion ceremony she prepares just in case Morrigan betrays her (which can happen)Thoughts? Its not optional I believe. Plus, you will have to deliver it if you want to gain Merrill as a companion too. Arctistor23 (talk) 02:15, February 17, 2011 (UTC) Flemeth page quote I believe that we should change the Flemeth quote at the top of the page to "We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment...and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly" Thoughts? Arctistor23 (talk) 23:45, March 13, 2011 (UTC) Another quote How 'bout adding another quote, one that I cannot repeat verbatim, but think goes something like this: "The road is darker when you walk it blindfolded." Very excellent quote. Grey Warden Not an editor but I disagree greatly with "As Varric tells Cassandra about Flemeth's involvement, a reference to the Warden is made as well, indicating that Varric knows Flemeth sent Morrigan with the Warden." What Varric does say is something along the lines of "Do I need to recite the tale of the warden as well?" in reference to Cassandra calling it absurd that there was a witch of the wild who could become a dragon. What I see this as is a mention that the warden's legend has become greatly widespread. Whether Varric knows of Morrigan is quite a large jump to presume. -- (talk) 07:15, March 16, 2011 (UTC) I thought the quote was referencing the fact that the warden is saved by Flemeth in her dragon form? Killed in Origins, Reborn in DA:2 Reading the page, it suggest Flemeth (possibly) dies at the hand of The Warden, and later on is reborn with the ritual performed by Merill, from the amulet Hawke brought. This is possibly true, but it is not what I believed at first.. This is what I thought, Like she had said, she can exist in more places than one, I assume it as there really be multiple 'Flemeths' running around in the world. And The Warden had only killed one of the 'Flemeths' and the Flemeth Hawke met was one and the same he 'summons' out of the Amulet. I am not sure what to believe, the conclusion on the 'Flemeth' page sure is more believable at first. But listening to what Flemeth tells Hawke at 'resurrection': 'A bit of security, should the inevitable occur. And if I know my Morrigan, it already has.' This made me believe there were multiple Flemeths, as according to me, this one isn't sure if Morrigan had already 'killed' another part of her. Meaning she was not really 'reborn'. Just a theory, maybe somebody should ask what the exact story with the amulet and her death in Origins really is at the Bioware forums, since some of the writers check the forums... --Penesco (talk) 19:00, April 28, 2011 (UTC) :You are making a theory of something that is very clear and needs no theory (unlike, for example, the true nature of Flemeth for which we can speculate but not yet know). You see, the early events in DA2 occour during the events in DAO (or very shortly after). In particular, all flemeth events happen as the events of DAO happen, and in chronological order. :So this is what happened: :After helping the warden and sending morrigan off, but before she is killed, Flemeth asks hawke to get the amulet to sundermount, in forebonding that morrigan would get her killed soon. : She is "revived" after she is killed, and comments *clearly* that she knows morrigan was going to do it, hence the need for insurance. :There are many ambiguities and mysteries in the DA universe, in part because the writters haven't really decided (I mean, the qunari horn retcon is epic retcon of epicness), but this isn't one of them. Clearly Flemeth is much more than meets the eye, but there is only one flemeth, and she has a special relationship with the dalish, that much is clear and unambigous. --~~ ::Indeed Flemeth mentions on Sundermount that the amulet contained "a piece of her", which was enough to restore her, and that she had "an appointment" after saving Hawke (probably the second meeting with the Warden, as she is only at her hut when the Warden goes there with the intent to kill her.), and again on Sundermount she mentions that she couldn't have gone there herself as she had that appointment. As a matter of fact, a wiki is never a place for theories... -- Marvin Arnold (talk) 17:18, October 29, 2011 (UTC) Dalish Goddess??? Everyone talks of Flemeth possibly being an "Old God", but is it possible that she is what remains of one of the elven gods? She refers to Merrill as being "One of the people." After the resurrection of Flemeth in DA2, it's seems clear that she is something that transcends time and space, and the Dalish elves of two different clans have made reference to knowing of her, Merrill's and that elf girl from Witch Hunt (possibly three if you count the clan that brought Maric to her before all of this started). On top of all this, an ELVEN rite for the dead is used on the amulet to resurrect Flemeth. On top of all that, if this theory IS sound, is it possible that Flemeth was... "summoned" long ago to take vengeance upon the humans for the wrong they made for the elves, and that all of this is part of an overly elaborate plan to bring about the fall of the humans? The last part is a stretch, I know, but I see Flemeth as something older than the "Old Gods" of the Tevinter Imperium (the high-dragons that are turned into arch-demons), but not the Maker... unless the entire development team for DA wants to use a HUGE plot twist in that: 1. Leliana was correct when stating the Maker was still in Thedas... LITERALLY and 2. That everyone thinks the Maker is a benevolent father-figure... when Flemeth is the complete opposite Thoughts? -- Actually the first part does make complete sense, either an Elven Goddess or one of the Forgotten Ones? I'm pretty sure the remaining two Old Gods are male as well (not saying that she can't change her gender, if she's a God then I suppose Flemeth can do whatever she wants), also if she was an awakened Old God surely she could succumb to the taint? The fact that the Dalish revere her in ways, having their own name for her, and as said the elven rite for the departed being needed. If that is the case then it's possible very few Dalish even know who she truly is, what with most of their history being lost, going based on simple tradition. With the knowledge she obviously would have had on Dalish history if this was the case, then it could explain how Morrigan knew how to fix the Eluvian, whereas Merril failed. -- (talk) 14:19, March 28, 2012 (UTC) ------- I think Flemeth is Mythal. Just from the dialogue when Merrill prays at the Shrine of Mythal on Sundermount. The same shrine you use to resurrect Flemeth. (talk) 17:54, November 3, 2011 (UTC) ------- She could even be one of the "Forgotten Ones" in elven mythology. The gods of evil? All The Above I agree. I think Flemeth is, in a sense, an "Old God". She's extremely powerful, able to be in multiple places at once (in her own words), and capable thus of transcending death. It's symbolic as well that she can change from dragon to "human" at will. This indicates that she isn't an abomination or tainted "God", because, as Wynne states, it is the lack of humanity that defines an abomination. I think she's an ancient "God" that predates the Tevinter Imperium and serves as sort of a Watcher. Watching events transpire from afar, interfering in small ways to weave the pattern of fate as she sees fit. But what EVERYONE FAILED TO MENTION. Is that Dragon Age 2 Flemeth is a hottie. :D Thoughts? --Flomasta69 (talk) 08:38, June 21, 2011 (UTC)-- She certainly has held up well for her age. ;) MarcoDelMarco (talk) 03:49, September 6, 2011 (UTC)